This interview between Dave Rubin and Mickey Keating was originally intended for a popular LGBTQ+ publication. Upon receipt of the final draft, that publication declined to run it.
Editor's note: This interview between Dave Rubin and Mickey Keating was originally intended for a popular LGBTQ+ publication. Upon receipt of the final draft, that publication declined to run it. The publisher didn't have concerns about the content of the piece, but was so afraid that someone else would that he censored himself, and his publication, on account of that fear.
While that is not a fear to which The Post Millennial succumbs, it is one that we understand. It can be hard to stand up for your belief in free speech in the face of a social media mob that would sooner crush you than listen with an open mind. The heartbreak that publisher must feel at having had to deny his friend and colleague a place in that publication is very real, and he had every reason to believe that his publication would suffer in the face of an online mobbing. But stories must be told.
Mainstream media's most noted gay, conservative dishes on hot topics, politics, & 'The Golden Girls'
Andy Warhol once believed everyone would have their fifteen minutes of fame. In today's standards, the artist certainly wasn't wrong. Anyone can go viral at any minute for a comedic video, a botched gender reveal, or even a cancelation because of a heated moment. Social media has certainly given everyone a platform, good or bad. Perhaps we have Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, and the like to blame for causing unrest within society. The number of emotions you can experience just by simply browsing through your current social media feed is sometimes unmanageable. One update has you laughing, the next you're sharing, then purchasing a product you haven't heard of before, reminiscing on a distant friend's success, and the next, oh jeez you're angry at something that someone said – enough to respond with your own opinion. Chances are it's something politically related, right?
How I got here
I'm a Millennial. I haven't seen politics interfere with personal and familial relationships ever in my life until the United States Presidential Election in 2016. I even participated in some of that foolery years ago. Political affiliation, which was once supposed to not be spoken of on a first date, is now what people use to describe themselves in their social media biographies and even on a resume. We've witnessed friendships and family ties be destroyed over political beliefs. Now, it seems if you aren't ALL in on every political topic one side or one person supports, you're not good enough. When it comes to politics now, there's no more gray area, but instead strictly black or white. It's dangerous.
However, you don't have to go finding a needle in a haystack to realize there are people in this world who won't judge one another for their political beliefs as long as it doesn't interfere with personal freedoms or safety. Throughout my young life, and after carefully observing the mania the ongoing global pandemic has caused, I've reshaped my political logic to shape a more independent brain. While I'm not an avid political devotee, there's endless other subjects I'd rather discuss than politics, like hair conditioners or Wandavision, but I can't help but believe there's almost no way to escape political conversations nowadays.
My first-time voting was in 2016 and, true to form, I was (and begrudgingly still am) a registered Democrat and repelled by anything related to former President Donald Trump. As the years passed, I saw myself growing further apart from radicalized liberal values as we recently saw with the now Independent Andrew Yang. I didn't bother to listen to conservative talking points early on during the Trump Administration. It wasn't until Meghan McCain joined as a co-host of The View that I sat on her words and thought – often. So much that my mind began shifting and she responded to her first Instinct Magazine article thanking me for taking the time to consider her view. McCain's guidance into a different reality, the plague of the #MeToo era in Hollywood, Jeffrey Epstein's social circle, and the need to silence or destroy right leaning Americans had led me to slowly understanding those Republican talking points I once ignored and abolished. Eventually I'd come across viral sensation, Steven Crowder, during a live stream of the Academy Awards, since I wanted to watch but didn't have the means. I found myself laughing hysterically – I was originally under the impression this was just a comedy YouTube channel. Since that day, I've watched his digital talk show Louder with Crowder daily and have been introduced to a plethora of conservatives who I have also listened to. One of those, to my surprise, was openly gay conservative-Libertarian, Dave Rubin.
During one of Crowder's weekly YouTube segments, I came across Rubin and immediately thought he was hitting every mark better than Katniss Everdeen. He was charismatic, charming, funny, and most importantly believable in every word he says. I recall the moment I paused to rewind: Did he just say something about being gay? He did! And a Trump supporter? No way. I began looking into him and discovered Rubin has been in the entertainment industry for a long time. While he currently hosts his own digital talk show, The Rubin Report on BlazeTV and YouTube, Rubin has previously been a standup comedian in New York and had a series of radio talk shows, on top of being an author of two political novels. After following Rubin for nearing two years, I reached out: We're both gay, independent thinkers, and I blissfully contribute to one of the leading LGBTQ magazines which highlights the Who's Who of our community and beyond. While he may be unpopular among liberal social media trends and opinions, Rubin's reach boasts well over a million subscribers on his YouTube channel alone, not combined with a huge social media following of conservative and libertarian thinkers alike.
My initial interaction with Rubin was a first, but certainly not without warrant. While I've interviewed many celebrities, influencers, and/or hot topics themselves, no one has wanted to speak with me before we even entertained the idea of being interviewed for the sake of publication. With finesse, Rubin wanted to ensure I wasn't a tabloid writer out to get him for a 'Gotcha' moment to humiliate him. After a brief conversation, I was able to gain some flaccid trust that I am not out to destroy him as he mentioned other LGBTQ blogs have done previously. I was upfront with him: I come in peace – and I want to see if it's at all possible to blur political lines in the LGBTQ community to come together rather than continue to drift so far apart. Everyone wants to proclaim we're all one community and we're in this gay life together, but conservative gays – and trust there are a lot of them, closeted or not – are still apart of our community. There wasn't nearly enough time to cover all bases with Rubin, who I will state is one heck of an interesting man, but this is an introduction that you need to check out.
The interview
Despite being likely a short drive from one another, we chatted over a video conference in our homes: Rubin in his luxurious backyard among barking dogs and me in my nautical themed bedroom oasis. Rubin didn't mind technical issues on my end, thankfully Mercury is now out of retrograde. He's as chipper as you'd recognize, and sharp. This beeftastic forty-five-year-old's words leave him so confidentially that you cannot help but become a bit hypnotized because you sincerely listen to every word as he sips his Spindrift water, although may have been imagining it was some tequila – which could've definitely made our conversation rowdier, but I'll take what I can get! Let's take a dive into getting to know Rubin, because I can guarantee you'll want to further investigate.
Keating: Okay, let's get this out of the way. I know someone is going to see your name in the headline and immediately lose their mind writing some hateful comment likely without even reading the article. Cancel Instinct Magazine, cancel Mickey, cancel Dave – who is a failed comedian. You know those comments are coming, because they are plastered all over your social media to begin with by non-fans, and you know the gays will be coming in full force. What do you have to say to those who come at you with ridiculous allegations and opinions?
Rubin: If I'm a failed comedian, I'm pretty sure that almost every comedian in the history of all time would love to trade places with me. If I was a failed comedian, you'd have no idea who I am. Every standup show that I've done in the last five years, I've sold out – and I don't have anyone opening for me. I did my comeback show at Irvine Improv in Orange County and the manager came up to me and said I had the first standing ovation she's seen in seven years [at that club]. I don't want a Netflix or HBO special for my standup. It's a piece of me and what I do, sometimes I'm funny sometimes I'm not. It's a part of me building to do what I do now, which is to interview people and talk to the camera. Standup had something to do with that. I know a lot of failed comics and they'd gladly trade places with me.
Keating: It was just National Coming Out Day yesterday [October 11th] and while I don't like social media holidays, some of them tend to be fun. Staying on path with us being openly gay and towering the important step of us coming out in our gay lives, I'm curious to hear your coming out story.
Rubin: I wrote about coming out in my book, Don't Burn This Book. The first person I ever came out to was about midnight, September 11th 2001, in the Times Square subway station, eight or nine hours before the terrorist attacks. My friend Mike Singer who is an openly gay stand-up comedian. We were separating at the station and I told him. He didn't think it was a big deal, I did! [I thought it was going to be a movie moment.] The next morning I woke up from a call from my father who had an office in Midtown. He was watching the explosions and fires. I kid you not, I originally thought his phone call had something to do with me. I was in the closet, I had kept this secret in me for so long. I finally released it to the world and the world hit back, next thing I knew the city I was in was under attack. I know it sounds completely nuts, but that tells you a lot of what it's like to be in the closet. When you're in the closet there's only room for one. Your thoughts are all you have to bounce things off of. Humans are social creatures, you need to be able to say something to map it against someone else's reality. That's how we learn and create. I was so used to being in the closet, I thought that phone call from my dad on September 11th had something to do with me.
Keating: Alright, so researching you was pretty interesting. You've done a lot and have been around longer than most. I know you've journeyed from New York to California – where you just hosted Larry Elder for dinner at your home. I'm curious how your coastal transition went.
Rubin: I was doing standup in New York for twelves years with success and failures, a lot of good success when I was very young. I came out professionally in 2011 and it kind of stalled my comedy career. The clubs wanted a certain type of gay guy. They wanted an over-the-top queen, someone like Mario Cantone, Ant, and one or two other guys who I can't remember at the moment. My routine was social commentary and politics. Once you say you're gay on stage, it shifts the audiences expectations of what you'll deliver. Stand-up wasn't right for me anymore. Eventually, I got a show on on the channel, which was the gay radio channel – you know, separate but equal. It was pretty successful for a couple of years. All of the fan mail I'd get from my radio show was from closeted guys basically. They'd say 'Hey I haven't heard a gay guy who sounds like me. Who doesn't act a certain way, who sounds like a normal guy. I love what you're doing.' They would always tell me they were closeted and that would drive me crazy. The people who were my biggest fans couldn't share my clips [or talk about my show]. Eventually I'd do live events at gay bars and my fans would come alone, because they were closeted. There was something not cool about the people who I'm helping the most couldn't help me at all because they were afraid of being outed.
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Keating: Do you ever get recognized in West Hollywood or any other gayborhoods? I'm not exactly sure where you frequent.
Rubin: My husband's friend was visiting us from out of town and he really wanted to go to The Abbey in West Hollywood for lunch on a Sunday. We went and I kept saying that I wasn't sure if I wanted to go. I wasn't sure if I'd get recognized and these people would hate me. I don't really go to gay bars anymore. Anyway, we go and about two dozen people came up to me and told me how much they loved me and we talked. I'm sure there was someone giving me side eye from a distance, but no one aggressively approached me.
Keating: I saw a really warmly written article via HuffPost on your marriage proposal to your producer now-husband, David Janet. You got on one knee at a Fleetwood Mac concert and of course, he accepted and now you both are living your best, married lives. How's life being off the market? We're you upfront with your politics when you met him? I wrote about dating across political lines in 2018, but now I'm even finding myself less attracted to illogical liberals and the conservative gay crowd seems to be a bit smaller dating pool to pick from.
Rubin: I met my husband, David Janet, on my birthday, June 26, which was gay pride in New York. I was at Cowgirl in the West Village promoting my radio show and doing a meet and greet in the back. I noticed him immediately, he came in wearing an American flag tank top and it was meant to be! We hit it off right away and were friends for years. We like the same stuff: He's a great chef, we like to host dinner parties, walk our dog, eat. There comes a point in your life where you can hook up forever, do all the shit you want to do, like exercising, your vices, endlessly. But, when you find someone you want to be on this [life] adventure with who you love and want to build something better, and still have great sex with years later. I don't like to talk about my sex life, but I think a lot of men think 'Oh I can't be in a relationship because I want to have sex with all of these people.' For us, that feeling has gone away. We're really good, we still do our thing, and we've been together for eleven years now. To me, it's the ultimate example why the fight for gay marriage was so just. If you don't like people have functional relationships, the ability to grow with someone to have a family, have kids, all of those things. You're going to lead people to their vices. When we moved to Los Angeles, we moved to West Hollywood. There's nothing more depressing than seeing one of the seventy-year-old men who spends his life at the gym, has hair plugs, the fake tan. I empathize and sympathize with those guys tremendously. I'm not passing judgment on them, but at the end of the day who wants to be that? You want to be with someone who you can build something sustainable with overtime. I'm not saying my life is for everybody, but it's a great example of why [gays] want equality. [We] want everyone to have the opportunity to find love and build something durable that becomes stronger overtime. I think a lot of gay people have come up against that. I'm forty-five-years-old and I had no [gay] role models. [In the past] we had over-the-top caricatures usually. I had to model a lot of this for myself. There still aren't a lot of great role models out there for younger gay guys.
Keating: On our quick pre-call to this conversation, I learned right away that you're a fan of The Golden Girls, which has become a gay staple and stereotype over the years that I see most common in gay men older than me. I want to say I grew up with Will & Grace – I was in third grade and was bullied by people running up to my face screaming 'Just Jack!' with the hand gestures, but I never even watched that show until I was in college so I had no idea what they were talking about! And after watching it, I couldn't get into that show at all! I vibed the most with Queer as Folk, but again that was way before my time and I had to learn about that in young adulthood. What makes you still a huge fan of The Golden Girls?
Rubin: I didn't like Will & Grace. I watched an episode or two, but I didn't feel like it was for me. I was closeted during Queer as Folk. I remember having roommates at the time and I'd be watching it with my finger on the remote back button so I could go right back to ESPN. I remember a little bit of it. [When it comes to The Golden Girls] I'm definitely Dorothy Zbornak (Bea Arthur). There's a great episode where her ex-husband Stan's (Herb Edelman) cousin from Czechoslovakia comes to visit and she's a communist. Dorothy has to repeatedly explain throughout the episode why America is great and why liberalism is good. It's the same episode where Blanche Devereaux (Rue McClanahan) thinks a book was written about her. While they are at the bookstore, Dorothy tells [Stan's cousin] to read the book Common Sense by Thomas Paine. That's the great, classic liberal book of all time. Dorothy was the realist of all of them. You may remember that they spun off Golden Girls and did Golden Palace where the girls ran a hotel – without Dorothy. They needed Dorothy [to make that show work]. She was the sane one among the over-the-top clowns, you know, the sex crazed maniac, the idiot, and the quippy grandma. It's funny Golden Girls has such a huge connection to the gay world. So many gay guys have an appreciation for it. When I grew up I played basketball, sports, I liked Transformers and G.I. Joe, I loved those boy or guy things. But, I always loved the Golden Girls. When I was fourteen, Saturday nights I was home at eight or nine o'clock watching the show on NBC. It didn't seem gay to me exactly. Over the years when I told people I love the show, people would assume there was something gay about that. There's a lot of gay references in it, obviously. The episode where Blanche's brother Clayton (Monte Markham) comes out of the closet is really an incredible episode because Clayton was a normal, southern guy who happened to be gay and that's all it was. The follow up episode where he gets married to the cop, another normal guy. They aren't over the top or stereotypes, which I don't mind, but I have never seen before where gays are portrayed as quote unquote, "normal". There's a great line in that episode, Saturday night 1991, when Blanche says to Clayton 'Why would you want to marry that man?' And Clayton responds with 'Well I'd do anything for Doug. And Doug would bend over backwards for me.' Think how hilarious that is! It's so subversive, funny, and true. It's a gay sex joke in 1991! You can flash forward thirty years after that to Modern Family, which I didn't watch but I know there's a gay couple. One of those guys had a fear of public displays of affections, so that was ABC's way of dealing with they didn't have to talk about gays and sex. The Golden Girls did that way back when, which is incredible.
Keating: I won't lie, I follow Candace Owens. She's tough and I'd hate to go against her in an argument. While I don't agree with everything she says, I've had her back quite a few times for calling out the antics of people like Chrissy Teigen, Cardi B, and Noah Cyrus. I love strong women and that means all strong women, not just strong, Democratic women. From social media I know you're both friends and you attended her wedding. I'd love to hear about how you met one another.
Rubin: Over the last few years, I've had the pleasure of meeting a lot of people doing my talk show. Not only meeting them, but helping them become bigger. Candace is the best example of that, I was one of the first to put her on my show. We did an hour together and I didn't know her name before the show started. She was a YouTuber who called herself 'RedPillBlack'. She stayed at my house that night for about eight hours, we had dinner, her husband was there. What I love about her is that she went right into the machine. I say to her some people swallowed the red pill, she snorted it. She went in and said 'This is who I am, I'm going to fight for it.' I don't always agree with her, sometimes it's over the top, but I won't tell anyone how to live their life. I think she's a specular woman, she's a great woman, and she's going to do amazing things. The fact that I have something to do with that is pretty cool.
Keating: Okay, so we need to get into the nitty-gritty of our conversation. Your social media is typically all politics, all the time – and I agree with a lot of what you post. Let's talk vaccines. The vaccine mandate controversy is dividing America and taking absolute control of any conversations in recent weeks. You appear to be against the mandate, but not the vaccine. I'm hoping you can elaborate.
Rubin: Look, the general thing is that [I] don't want the government telling you what to do with your body. I thought the motto was 'My Body, My Choice'? Now it's my body, Joe Biden's choice. I don't have an opinion on to whether the COVID-19 vaccine is good or bad. It seems fairly obvious they aren't working exactly as promised, because now we are talking about booster shots that we weren't talking about eight months ago. I think you should talk to your doctor and make a decision that is right for you. The idea that the government is saying this is a federal choice, not a state choice, is an issue as well. For gays who have gone so deep, progressivism has become their belief system. During the AIDS crisis, would they have been okay with the government calling them the most high-risk people and forced only the gays to get vaccinated? I've had David Horowitz on my YouTube Channel recently, he was the original 'Why I Left the Left' guy. He was a communist, a Marxist, and would go on to support Ronald Reagan so the left turned on him and called him a racist, bigot, etc. He talked about living in New York in the late 1980s during the AIDS crisis. New York City knew where AIDS was spreading: The bathhouses. The Republicans wanted to close the bathhouses where gays were having sex and doing drugs and then dying, but the Democrats pushed back to let the gays do their thing, calling Republicans homophobes. Often when people get painted as the bad guys, they aren't the bad guys.
Keating: It's obvious Biden's poll numbers, for what they are worth, are falling fast and he's very hard to follow and understand. I watch him speaking and I'm like, 'What is going on? Does he even know?' – and then there's Vice President Kamala Harris, who was all about putting herself in front of the camera during the election and now is barely seen. When she is, it's a bunch of fake, forced laughter and even performing in front of paid child actors for a publicity stunt. What do you think of Harris?
Rubin: Harris was polling at zero within her own party [during the Democratic Primary]. [Biden] has obvious cognitive problems. He is in no way resembling the politician we once knew. He was never a crazy radical. He was a moderate Democrat. I kind of liked Biden ten years ago, he was a grandfatherly type of guy. He's a complete radical right now. I don't think he knows what he believes. They have a puppet master, I'm not sure who it is. They are trying to destroy the country. They are trying to import communism and Marxism. This isn't a crazy conspiracy theory. They want the government to take over everything. They are trying to tank the economy. We're having food shortages, high gas prices, inflation, prices of houses going through the roof. What a horrible withdrawal from Afghanistan – Trump would've been impeached seven times over [if he did what Biden recently did]. It was nonsense. There's no doubt the country would be in better shape if Trump was the President.
Keating: I'm sure you've seen the recent viral trends of people chanting 'Let's Go Brandon' which is homage to a reporter trying to pretend NASCAR fans weren't screaming 'F*** Joe Biden' in another form of media manipulation. It's since been going viral and is now a weekly occurrence at sporting events, even liberal leaning colleges. It appears that Americans are slowly turning on the Biden Administration, but this isn't being highlighted in mainstream media.
Rubin: I think [the chant is] absolutely spectacular. You can't make up a meme like that. The beauty of a good meme is that is says something that is so deeply true. It also is supposed to make you laugh to want to share it. That NBC news reporter claimed the NASCAR crowd was saying Lets Go Brandon, it's such a perfect meme. Everyone hates Biden, he has a media that lies to protect him. And now they can't stop the chant, it's great.
Keating: Obviously you're a big supporter of Trump – you've interviewed him and regardless of societal opinion on him – that's huge to speak with a former or sitting President. At first, I was absolutely on board with believing he was this raging homophobe and bigot, but as I thought more to myself, I questioned those beliefs. It was more like, wait I did just hear this through the grapevine, because a lot he said was mostly taken out of context by the media and inserted into headlines. There were so many rumors that he was going to abolish gay marriage away, take away LGBTQ+ rights…and that never happened. I don't even believe it was on the table for discussion. Also, there's Tiffany Trump, who looks like she lives at a Sunday Drag Brunch. She certainly wouldn't let her father screw with the gays. Why do you think the gays are so convinced Trump was the ultimate evil?
Rubin: Donald Trump doesn't hate gay people! He likes people who are interesting, that's it. When I met him, he was so excited that we were gay and at Mar-A-Logo. He couldn't believe that we were there. He turned to Melania Trump and said 'The only problem with them is they're too handsome!' He doesn't hate gay people. Trump was an outsider. Gays used to be outsiders. He has an innate understanding of people who aren't accepted. But, gays have become such the norm, which is why there is an added hysteria around being gay. Trump couldn't care less. When they asked him about transgender people, he said he was happy that he'd only have to put one bathroom in his hotels because it would save him money. That's a much better answer than Biden with his mangled brain trying to pump out all of the letters of LGBTQ without knowing what it means. I went to Trump rallies in Beverly Hills, there were so many gay people there. Republicans weren't angry that we were there. Leaving West Hollywood one day, my husband and two [gay] friends passed a Trump rally in Beverly Hills and it reminded me of gay pride. There were so many people expressing themselves and celebrating having so much fun with American flags and Trump flags. It was almost more fun than gay pride. It was people coming out of the political closet. That was what once gay pride used to mean. The only people who show up for Biden are people chanting 'Lets Go Brandon'.
Keating: On that beat, we have to discuss the recent debacle with comedian Dave Chappelle versus the transgender community. I've always written about my support for Chappelle and while I'm certain the side of sanity is with him among this recent cancellation, the story still hasn't gone away. This seems to be a recurring theme constantly, I think all the time of how Scarlett Johansson's film got canceled because the transgender community didn't want her playing a transgender man. What's your take on these progressives being the loudest voice of cancel culture?
Rubin: Actors are artists, they are pretending to do things. Tom Hanks was never actually stranded on an island. Social justice has ruined absolutely everything. On the transgender front, of course if someone treats me with respect, I'll treat them with respect. I'm not out here to offend anyone. If I meet someone transgender, I'll use their preferred pronouns. If I was going to be rude to anyone, I wouldn't attack their gender pronouns. What I don't want is the government compelling speech, which is what Jordan Peterson was warning about years ago in Canada. Which is now coming to pass: You'll be punished if you misgender someone. Just because we're gay…I have no more in common with a transgender person than a heterosexual person. I am in the body that I'm supposed to be in, even if my body has an extra five or ten pounds on it! But, LGBTQ has been jammed together. Douglas Murray is a great, gay conservative writer talks about this in his novel, The Madness of Crowds: Gender, Race and Identity. He removes the T from LGBTQ because these things have nothing to do with one another. I want every transgender person to live their lives and be happy. But, not at the expense of basic truth. There are biological differences between men and women. We all know it. My husband and I are going through surrogacy right now. When you put sperm with an egg, three days later, they can tell you what sex it is. They tell you male or female, there isn't a third option. Is my doctor a bigot? Or is he a man of science? However, that's not to deny anyone's feelings of how they feel about their own gender.
Keating: It's so bizarre to me to see how much hate the gay community has not just for the Republican party or conservatives, but also their fellow gay brothers and sisters who are conservative. You can't want equality and justice but point to a group of gays and say 'Except them!' I'm still trying to wrap my head around the vile comments on social media towards them at any given time. Conservative gays can't be such a niche group, right?
Rubin: To the gays who sort of understand some of [what I'm saying], I want to tell them that you don't have to be a full-blown Republican. I don't consider myself a Republican. But, you cannot be a Democrat. If you want to live free as an individual, you should want to be a Libertarian. You should want the government out of your life so you can protect your family, marry who you want to marry, smoke whatever you want to smoke. Gays innately should be Libertarians, but they've become hysterical, progressive authoritarians. They think intersectionality makes minority groups stronger, but it creates a monster and that's the truth. I don't have a lot of hope for young people who have been brainwashed [by the Democrats into voting with them]. But, I do have hope for the gay community. If you can come to the grips with your own sexuality – that you're an outlander on this planet – if you can accept yourself for who you are – the best way to safeguard your freedoms is to not have a tyrannical government. I would thank, in some level, the progressives for gay marriage. But, that's when you get to the end of liberalism. The end of liberalism is everyone is treated equally under the law. But, when you have that – then you don't want to keep progressing for the sake of progressing. You don't want to keep going down the road, eventually you want to stop. Maybe you want to build a house or a road on that community. Now, they are progressing so far to go off the cliff together. [Now Progressives] want to start bringing racism into schools, count how many gay people we have, let's make sure that we have a Transportation Security who is gay [Pete Buttigieg], [even though] he has no qualifications whatsoever. But, he's gay, so he gets that title. And no we have supply change shortages and he's been on paternity leave for the last three months. I'm happy he and his husband have kids, but we have problems and you need to get back to work.
Keating: Maybe we won't be able to bring the LGBTQ community together. It could be too far gone. But, I have to ask: How would you recommend conservative gays to reach out and find one another? I know there are plenty out there scared to even speak up on what they think is outrageous, because it's going to be a flamed opinion. There has to be some type of safe space for those conservative gays to connect.
Rubin: I don't think there's so few gay conservatives. But, like with most things in the world right now, the left is the dominant cultural force. Everyone else is closeted. Now you have gay people who come out of the closet, related to their sexuality, and then have to go back into the closet because of their politics. You can be gay and conservative. I don't even consider myself a full traditional conservative. You can still believe family and certain values are important and who you're attracted to isn't connected to that. Same goes with religion. Finding other gay conservatives isn't the easiest thing in the world. Ten years ago, my husband and I were having dinner in New York and we met this elder gay couple who were having a great time and we started talking to them and eventually struck up a friendship. We were friends with them for years, they lived through the AIDS crisis. When we'd visit them for dinner parties they'd show us photo albums of their friends, most to all had passed. One of them said something that was interesting to me I still remember: He felt that gay wasn't cool anymore. Back in his youth, he was going to underground clubs and it was funky and weird, whatever. He felt like our generations version of gay was boring and mainstream - that was ten years ago! Now, gays, who were once politically incorrect and where so much art, culture, and music came out of – have become the hysterical people in many cases that they used to make fun of. I wasn't even a huge part of the [gay scene]. I'm not a great dancer, unless I have a ton of tequila and some Studio 54 music. I think I had an implicit understanding that there was something about being different that leads to creativity and interesting stuff. Is there anything like that coming out of the gay community right now? It seems like endless shrieking and harping.
Wrapping up my conversation with Rubin left me entirely satisfied, yet yearning for more. Thankfully, his digital talk show is widely available for anyone looking for more information, because chances are any questions you'll want to ask him or have him speak on will likely be already answered. What shocked me the most is that I was talking to the exact person I had been watching videos of over the last year. It's probably why his digital series is so successful: He is exactly who he is on paper, on screen, and in conversation. It's where Rubin's 'Average Joe' persona succeeds to uphold him as more realistic than the celebrities or influencers who are sometimes inclined to put on a show. It's their habit because it's their job, and well, speaking on digital platforms and being himself is Rubin's career. And he isn't going anywhere, anytime soon, no matter how many people agree or disagree with him. Rubin is relevant, hard hitting, and most importantly loyal to his beliefs and freedom. These qualities don't make him believable as a "talking head" you'd see on Fox News or the like, but a person in general worthy of friendship and trust. Anyone wants to applaud someone who is authentically themselves, doesn't back down, and pushes through life to come out shining. Rubin is no different. And Dave, hey, I'm giving you another standing ovation.
If you're wanting to read up more on Rubin, don't forget to check out his YouTube channel, or his first novel Don't Burn This Book: Thinking for Yourself in an Age of Unreason and his next, Don't Burn This Country: Surviving and Thriving in Our Woke Dystopia, releasing in April 2022 yet available for pre-order now.
Writer's Note B: Quotes have been edited for clarity.