Gavin Newsom admits to Charlie Kirk it's 'unfair' for boys to play in girls' sports, but says they are at risk of suicide if banned

Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk sat down with California Governor Gavin Newsom for the first episode of Newsom's new podcast This is Gavin Newsom, during which Kirk confronted the Democrat leader about his state allowing biological men to compete against women in sports.

"Would you say no men in female sports," Kirk asked. Newsom said it is an "issue of fairness, I completely agree with you on that. It is an issue of fairness. It is deeply unfair."

Kirk asked whether Newsom would speak out against AB Hernandez, the trans-identified male California high school athlete who won a track meet in the triple jump by a staggering eight feet. "I see you wrestling with that," Kirk said.

"No, I’m not wrestling with the fairness issue," Newsom said, "I totally agree with you. By the way, as someone with four kids," two of which are daughters, "I revere sports, and so the issue of fairness is completely legit. And I saw the last couple of years, boy did I saw how you guys were able to weaponize that."

Kirk said it was not "weaponizing," but the way most Americans feel, to which Newsom said "weaponized may be perjorative, you’re right. But you were able to highlight it in a way that, frankly, there are not that many — we’re talking about, I think the NCAA, what, 510,000" NCAA athletes overall. "But I just didn’t realize—"

Kirk cut in, "it’s 890 medals and trophies that we know of in the last five years" that were won by transgender athletes in women's competition. "That’s a lot," he said.

Newsom said, "No, so I’m—let me take a step back, say, completely fair on the issue of fairness. I completely agree. So that’s easy to call out, the unfairness of that. There’s also a humility and a grace. You know that these poor people are more likely to commit suicide, have anxiety and depression, and the way that people talk down to vulnerable communities is an issue that I have a hard time with as well. 

"So both things I can hold in my hand. How can we address this issue with the kind of decency that I think, you know, it’s inherent in you, but not always expressed on the issue, at the same time deal with the issue?"

Kirk noted that this was an "80/20 issue," with a New York Times poll finding that 80 percent of Americans think trans-identified males should not compete in women’s sports. 

"We’re getting crushed," Newsom said of Democrats, specifically as regards this issue.

"You have an opportunity in the state to be like, look, I have a heart for AB Hernandez, I have a heart for the San Jose volleyball player. Let’s give them compassion. What’s not fair is just for like, entire women’s sports—" Kirk said.

Newsom said he agreed with Kirk and that he has "stress tested this." Newsom said that he has been a leader in the LGBTQ space and has been "trying to understand" the issue of trans-identified males in women’s sports since it exploded in the last few years. "Even my own friend cohort, people saying, 'what the hell is going on? Why aren’t you calling this out?" He noted that a law was passed in 2014, before he became governor, that "established the legal principles that allow the trans athletes in women’s sports."

"So I completely align with you, and we’ve got to own that and we’ve got to acknowledge it. I don’t say that through the prism of politics," he said, later adding, "I don’t want to walk away from this principle because of electoral."

Kirk said that he wished they had had the conversation one week prior, due to all Democrats in the US Senate voting against the Protecting Women and Girls in Sports Act. The bill required 60 votes to advance, but received just 51 votes in favor of it.

"You guys are giving us an 80/20 issue that is just permeating the country. And it’s such an affront to our senses," said Kirk, later adding "This goes to a broader arch narrative there, which is important, which is this, that you, that the Democrats, you guys will tend to view an incident through an oppressor-oppressed lens. It’s your training. It comes from college, it comes from—and we as conservatives tend to view things through right or wrong, or just or unjust, and the country is going far more in our direction."

He later noted that Newsom knew what the "most effective ad" out of the 2024 election cycle was, to which Newsom replied "Trump’s for you, she’s for they/them." Newsom said this ad was "devastating," and Democrat presidential candidate Kamala Harris "didn’t even react to it, which was even more devastating," and came out in favor of giving sex changes to inmates, which Newsom said was a 90/10 issue not an 80/20.

Kirk also confronted Newsom about teachers being shielded by law in the state if they keep a child’s trans identity secret from their parents. Newsom focused on the law protecting teachers who realize that a student may be gay, to which Kirk said, "we’re talking about two different things."

"But there, of course, should be a penalty measure, whether it be termination or whatever, if a teacher withholds information from a parent, because what you’re saying is that there’s no way to hold them accountable," said Kirk, adding that Newsom was using an "over extreme example."

"We’re talking about is if, which happens a lot, unfortunately, is if a young girl says that, hey, I want to transition, and the teacher accommodates and affirms it and the parent doesn’t even know. I have met parents like that," Kirk continued, later adding, "you guys will lose on these topics."