First responders speak about policy following delayed Uvalde response — ‘We don’t wait’

First responders told The Post Millennial about their departments’ tactics in comparison to Uvalde — and expressed concern that one person's decision will reflect on law enforcement and first responders nationwide.

Retired Washington state law enforcement officer Larry Hann said law enforcement always tries to stop an active shooter, even if just one officer is available.

"We don’t wait," he told The Post Millennial. "Every second that goes by is potentially more deaths. And if the offender is engaging police, then they are not killing others."

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If things are quiet when law enforcement arrives, officers will methodically search for the suspect, try to determine the possible crisis site, extract hostages, or perhaps provide an escape route, Hann said.

He said they must consider how many officers are required to search, contain, and prepare for all contingencies inside a large building — and how many are required outside to ensure no one enters and the suspect doesn't flee.

"We all need to understand that the average person (with or without training) can fire ANY gun four times per second," Hann said.

He said officers on "any kind of take down team" knows the suspect is likely to fight. It's the classic ''fight or flight" human nature response, he said.

"Now if we apply that to a hostage situation, and we bust in the room when things aren’t active at that moment...there is an increased risk of suspect response, especially if we are delayed in entry."

"I can safely say all Washington state law enforcement are trained to go in and get the active shooter without hesitation," Hann concluded.

But blaming law enforcement for the delayed response before the crime scene is finish being processed may result in other tragedies, like post-traumatic stress disorder, causing some officers to leave, or worse.

"Imagine yourself as an officer on scene unable to stop the killing of children and the whole world blaming you," he said.

Hann also warned about the "defund the police" movement, saying some schools in his state have not had school resource officers for almost two years because administrators listened to a vocal minority during the movement.

Retired fire chief Jim Adsley, from SeaTac, Washington, told The Post Millennial policy may have influenced the decision not to go in — which local officials later called the "wrong decision."

"Fire and police services are inherently dangerous. We all knew that when we signed up," he said. "When life is involved, you take risks you might not otherwise take, even if it’s only one person exposed."

At one point, firefighters in his department had a clause in their contract stipulating they would wait for police presence to enter assault scenes, he said.

But when Adsley arrived on scene where a son had been stabbed by his dad "significantly faster than the police," he decided to enter the building as he envisioned a child bleeding out.

"Fortunately, the assailant was gone, and the kid was not injured too bad," he recalled.

Adsley's department's policy was to enter burning buildings to save life — even with the risk of volatile material which could explode — while other departments surround and drown building fires, he said.

"So, it would be interesting to see what policies may have influenced the decision to stand by at the Texas school," he said. "In any case, how many of those kids and teachers might have been saved if valor over policy had played a role in this incident."

The former fire official said he would not want to get in shootout with a cop, saying "this punk would have been no match for a trained officer."

Adsley suggested ending no gun zone signs and allowing firearm competent people in schools to arm themselves. Competent also means the ability to act appropriately under high stress, he said, noting witnesses some who passed officer exams proficiently but would "lose it" under extreme pressure incidents.

"The cops train on guns, (so) teachers who are armed or anyone else protecting a school should have to train appropriately as well," Adsley said.

As anyone can run into mental health issues, behavior should be frequently monitored for those with weapons, he said. When threatening actions are posted on the internet or in person, that should be cause for collecting firearms, at least temporarily, he said.

Adsley said shooters who survive must "really pay the price to deter others from getting ideas about claim to fame also."

"We need to black label prosecutors and judges publicly who continually treat the bad guys with kid gloves. The penalty should be as atrocious as the act."